OK, so who skated for Cary Grant?

[Trudi Marrapodi]

I know I'm behind, but tonight for the first time I saw the skating scene
in "The Bishop's Wife"--the original, of course--on Turner Classic Movies
(they're having a Cary Grant film festival).

I never realized before how much skating is really in it. Apparently, it's
a rather crucial point in the plot that Cary, as the angel, proves to the
character played by Loretta Young that he really is an unusual being (and
she is unusual when she's guided by him) by taking her pond-skating and
not only proving that he's a pretty good skater, but making her one when
she's partnered with him.

I now want to know who the skating doubles were in this movie--who was out
there doing those waltz jumps and spins for Cary? Who was doing the
face-to-face pair spreadeagle, the Kilian and the Waltz for him and
Loretta? I'd even like to know who skated for James Gleason, who played
Sylvester the cab driver. There's a good stretch of time in which he has
to play the comical "I can't skate worth a darn and am tripping over my
own feet" role, and do it well--but by the end, he too becomes a pretty
good skater (because he's with an ANGEL, of course). I suspect he was
doubled by one of the classic ice-show comics of the day (Freddie
Trenkler? Frick or Frack?).

So...anyone know who the skating doubles were for this movie? Or have a
clue as to who they might have been? Lord knows the credits for this movie
were long (they even mention who the choir was), but the skaters never got
credit.

[johns]

All those old movies were like that .. loaded with hidden
talent / doubles, and most of those people were movie
doubles and nothing else. I don't think any of them
were ever mentioned in the credits.

johns

[MarcnNY]

I definitely remember reading the skating credits for the Cary Grant role. I
believe it was Hayes Alan Jenkins but I am not positive.

[PosterBoy]

Post by MarcnNY
I definitely remember reading the skating credits for the Cary Grant role.

I

Post by MarcnNY
believe it was Hayes Alan Jenkins but I am not positive.

Nope.
In 1946-7, such would have turned him pro. Instanter.
Mebbe Mike Kirby or one of the Galbraiths? John Walsh, or another Sonja
partner?
Cheers.

[Ellyn Kestnbaum]

I believe Eugene Turner was the skating double for Grant here. Not
sure about the other characters.

[Ellyn Kestnbaum]

To specify...

A little over a year ago, Eugene Turner (1940 and 41 US champ) had a
website at http://www.eturnerbooks.com to promote a novel he had
written. IIRC, his bio there stated that he had done the skating for
Grant in this movie. That website now longer seems to exist, so I
can't verify my memory.

The closest I can find now is this

http://www.lafsc.org/history.htm

It doesn't specify which movie but does say he doubled for Cary Grant.

[John Lincoln]

Post by Ellyn Kestnbaum
To specify...
A little over a year ago, Eugene Turner (1940 and 41 US champ) had a
website at http://www.eturnerbooks.com to promote a novel he had
written. IIRC, his bio there stated that he had done the skating for
Grant in this movie. That website now longer seems to exist, so I
can't verify my memory.
The closest I can find now is this
http://www.lafsc.org/history.htm
It doesn't specify which movie but does say he doubled for Cary Grant.

Gene Turner, that sounds a lot more reasonable that Hayes Jenkins.

-jl John


--Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch? -- Sundance

[Trudi Marrapodi]

Post by John Lincoln

Post by Ellyn Kestnbaum
To specify...
A little over a year ago, Eugene Turner (1940 and 41 US champ) had a
website at http://www.eturnerbooks.com to promote a novel he had
written. IIRC, his bio there stated that he had done the skating for
Grant in this movie. That website now longer seems to exist, so I
can't verify my memory.
The closest I can find now is this
http://www.lafsc.org/history.htm
It doesn't specify which movie but does say he doubled for Cary Grant.

Gene Turner, that sounds a lot more reasonable that Hayes Jenkins.

I agree. And for the record, Turner Classic Movies is not in the habit of
"trimming credits" from a movie. These credits looked like the original
ones that traditionally appeared at the end of every film of the era.
Granted, there were often credits at the beginning of such movies, too,
and I didn't see those. But if a stunt person is going to be credited
anywhere in a movie, it would be more likely to be at the end than at the
beginning. After all, telling everyone who did the stunts at the beginning
of the movie doesn't do much to help the audience suspend its disbelief.
("Disclaimer: Cary Grant is not really an angel. Repeat: Cary Grant is NOT
AN ANGEL. This is ONLY A MOVIE. Repeat: This is ONLY A MOVIE...")

[Janice Schnell]

Post by Trudi Marrapodi

Post by John Lincoln
Gene Turner, that sounds a lot more reasonable that Hayes Jenkins.

I agree.

Didn't the movie have children skating, too? It's been a while since I've seen
it. I was just thinking that it is possible for Hayes Jenkins to be in the
closing credits as a skater in the movie, just not Grant's double.

Janice
"Alias" Fan - Spydaddy rocks!

"Kwan uses her body as a form of communication that links her to the music, the
audience and the ice." Elaine Anderson, Reno Gazette-Journal 7/25/02

[Rex]

If you read his biography, he was a gymnast in his youth, no doubt he was
able to transfer his natural grace onto the ice.

[MarcnNY]

Thanks for the info. By the way, I never said it was Hayes Jenkins. The point
I was making is that someone did double for Grant and that it was a well known
skater of the times, such as Hayes A. Jenkins.

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by Ellyn Kestnbaum
I believe Eugene Turner was the skating double for Grant here. Not
sure about the other characters.

Eugene Turner skated for Cary Grant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Turner

[Doria]

Post by Trudi Marrapodi
So...anyone know who the skating doubles were for this movie? Or have a
clue as to who they might have been? Lord knows the credits for this movie
were long (they even mention who the choir was), but the skaters never got
credit.

-----------------------

No doubles for Cary Grant. I had the opportunity to ask him this
because we shared the same chiropractor years ago and were in the same
waiting room on a couple of occasions, talking about the Dodgers (he
was a big, big Dodger fan and had season tickets) and he told me he
was a gymnast when he was young, and did all his own skating in most
every scene in the Bishop's Wife (one of my favorits Grant movies).
He could also dance really well and roller skate. He also could do
prat falls because of his gymnastics background, like he did in
"Bringing in Baby" by K. Hepburn. He was a very nice old man when I
met him and I got his autograph too on one occasion. I don't know if
Loretta Young had a skate double or not in that movie. Occasionally
Grant and his wife Barbara would take Dr. Hexburg, the chiropractor we
shared, to the Dodger games, and I'd see them together there
sometimes.



Doria

[Trudi Marrapodi]

Post by Doria

Post by Trudi Marrapodi
So...anyone know who the skating doubles were for this movie? Or have a
clue as to who they might have been? Lord knows the credits for this movie
were long (they even mention who the choir was), but the skaters never got
credit.

-----------------------
No doubles for Cary Grant. I had the opportunity to ask him this
because we shared the same chiropractor years ago and were in the same
waiting room on a couple of occasions, talking about the Dodgers (he
was a big, big Dodger fan and had season tickets) and he told me he
was a gymnast when he was young, and did all his own skating in most
every scene in the Bishop's Wife (one of my favorits Grant movies).

Are you serious?? Cary Grant could do waltz jumps? What about Loretta
Young? Did he teach her to ice dance, or did she dance with a double, or
was that Cary and someone else?

Post by Doria
He could also dance really well and roller skate. He also could do
prat falls because of his gymnastics background, like he did in
"Bringing in Baby" by K. Hepburn. He was a very nice old man when I
met him and I got his autograph too on one occasion. I don't know if
Loretta Young had a skate double or not in that movie. Occasionally
Grant and his wife Barbara would take Dr. Hexburg, the chiropractor we
shared, to the Dodger games, and I'd see them together there
sometimes.

Jeez, Doria. You had the same chiropractor as Cary Grant, and here was
Babs thinking SHE was a big deal because she has shopped in the same place
as Maria Shriver!

[Doria]

Post by Trudi Marrapodi

Post by Doria
No doubles for Cary Grant. I had the opportunity to ask him this
because we shared the same chiropractor years ago and were in the same
waiting room on a couple of occasions, talking about the Dodgers (he
was a big, big Dodger fan and had season tickets) and he told me he
was a gymnast when he was young, and did all his own skating in most
every scene in the Bishop's Wife (one of my favorits Grant movies).

Are you serious?? Cary Grant could do waltz jumps? What about Loretta
Young? Did he teach her to ice dance, or did she dance with a double, or
was that Cary and someone else?

------------------------

I honestly don't know about Loretta Young. Although, Grant did say
he did "most" of the skating scenes, probably had someone else for a
couple of them. But he said he had skated quite frequently when he
was younger and I think, (and I could be wrong about this because I
haven't thought about this in years and my memory on it has faded a
bit) he said that the skating scene was an added scene (not in the
first version of the script but added later on) because the parties
wanted to do a scene on skates. Pretty funny, huh? This would
suggest that Loretta Young had some skating ability too and is wasn't
all a double for her either, or that other guy in the scene with them
(cab driver). This was a conversation we had in between talking about
the Dodgers, his favorite topic...and mine since I am a big baseball
fan too.

Some of the old time actors from the 30s could do lots of other
stuff besides act...sing, dance, roller skate, figure skate,
gymnastics, etc., some came from the world of athletics...Esther
Williams for example. Grant had been a circus performer when he was
young...hence the gynmastics stuff he could do, like back and front
flips.

Doria

[John Lincoln]

Post by Doria

Post by Trudi Marrapodi

Post by Doria
No doubles for Cary Grant. I had the opportunity to ask him this
because we shared the same chiropractor years ago and were in the same
waiting room on a couple of occasions, talking about the Dodgers (he
was a big, big Dodger fan and had season tickets) and he told me he
was a gymnast when he was young, and did all his own skating in most
every scene in the Bishop's Wife (one of my favorits Grant movies).

Are you serious?? Cary Grant could do waltz jumps? What about Loretta
Young? Did he teach her to ice dance, or did she dance with a double, or
was that Cary and someone else?

------------------------
I honestly don't know about Loretta Young. Although, Grant did say
he did "most" of the skating scenes, probably had someone else for a
couple of them. But he said he had skated quite frequently when he
was younger and I think, (and I could be wrong about this because I
haven't thought about this in years and my memory on it has faded a
bit) he said that the skating scene was an added scene (not in the
first version of the script but added later on) because the parties
wanted to do a scene on skates. Pretty funny, huh? This would
suggest that Loretta Young had some skating ability too and is wasn't
all a double for her either, or that other guy in the scene with them
(cab driver). This was a conversation we had in between talking about
the Dodgers, his favorite topic...and mine since I am a big baseball
fan too.
Some of the old time actors from the 30s could do lots of other
stuff besides act...sing, dance, roller skate, figure skate,
gymnastics, etc., some came from the world of athletics...Esther
Williams for example. Grant had been a circus performer when he was
young...hence the gynmastics stuff he could do, like back and front
flips.

Loretta Young, or at least her character, also skated in THE FARMER'S
DAUGHTER. This was also a 1947 title; it appeared that she did most or
all of her skating in that scene. Fred Astaire and Vera-Ellen can be
seen ice skating in THE BELLE OF NEW YORK. That title was shown
recently on Turner Classic Movies. Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers
roller skating in SHALL WE DANCE or SWING TIME, I can never remember
which one, Gene Kelly roller skating in IT'S ALWAYS FAIR WEATHER. If
you think back, you might recall David Nelson (of Ozzie and Harriet
fame) doing a trapeze act in 'Circus of the Stars' on the telly; late
60s or early 70s. Both David Nelson and brother Rick Nelson were fairly
good ice skaters; up to at least single axels..

-jl John


--Extent and goal of current public education: "Ya want fries with that?"

[MarcnNY]

No Skating double! Please, I hate to be rude but anyone with half a brain who
saw this movie knew that Cary Grant did not do the freestyle moves (jumps and
spins). The skating credits appeared at the very end of the movie.

[Trudi Marrapodi]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Doria]

Post by Trudi Marrapodi
There WERE no skating credits at the end of the movie. I said so in the
previous post. Honest. There were none.
So: While I'm willing to believe that Cary Grant was better at skating
than I gave him credit for, I still find it hard to believe he did the
waltz jumps.

----------------------

Can't remember all of the conversation that day, it's been too many
years now. I think he said he did most of his skating scenes, but
that's doesn't mean the director didn't use a double for the same
scenes. Then the film editor/director would edit the most realistic
shots, no matter who skated them, I would imagine.

It was so cool talking to him that day, I would never have
challenged his memory of the film and I didn't care much either
whether he was accurate or not. And my back was hurting, which was
why I was in the chiropractic's office anyway. That's all I remember.

Doria

[MarcnNY]

Trudi,
I have seen this movie several times. I was particularly interested to find
out who did the skating for Grant so I waited for the credits. It was a long
time into the credits before the name of the skater for Grant appeared. It was
a well known skater of the time; e.g., Hayes Alan Jenkins. I do not remember
any other skating credits, however. It could be that the movie you saw omitted
the credits. Where is Dick Button when we really need him?

[John Lincoln]

Post by MarcnNY
Trudi,
I have seen this movie several times. I was particularly interested to find
out who did the skating for Grant so I waited for the credits. It was a long
time into the credits before the name of the skater for Grant appeared. It was
a well known skater of the time; e.g., Hayes Alan Jenkins. I do not remember
any other skating credits, however. It could be that the movie you saw omitted
the credits. Where is Dick Button when we really need him?

Hayes Alan Jenkins?? He was 1956 Olympic champion; couldn't have been
much older than 22 at the time; THE BISHOP'S WIFE was a 1947 title
which would have made him about 12 or 13 at the making of the film.
Neither of the Jenkins brothers were very tall; elite skaters tend not
to be tall, Elvis is about 5-5. At 12/13, Hayes Jenkins would not be
much of a double for Cary Grant. I will have to dig out the tape and
see if any skater credit appears in my copy; I don't recall any.

-jl John

--Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action

[Tina Kramer]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Poodle Fan]

Yes,
And he also Roller Skated in "Monkey Business" with Marilyn Monroe. He took one heck of a fall in that movie! If they didn't use a double, then OUCH... By the way, the skates that Marilyn Monroe used were borrowed from my skating coach, who taught at the old Rollerdrome in Culver City, CA.

[k***@yahoo.com]

Post by Doria
No doubles for Cary Grant. I had the opportunity to ask him this
because we shared the same chiropractor years ago and were in the same
waiting room on a couple of occasions, talking about the Dodgers (he
was a big, big Dodger fan and had season tickets) and he told me he
was a gymnast when he was young, and did all his own skating in most
every scene in the Bishop's Wife (one of my favorits Grant movies).
He could also dance really well and roller skate. He also could do
prat falls because of his gymnastics background, like he did in
"Bringing in Baby" by K. Hepburn. He was a very nice old man when I
met him and I got his autograph too on one occasion. I don't know if
Loretta Young had a skate double or not in that movie. Occasionally
Grant and his wife Barbara would take Dr. Hexburg, the chiropractor we
shared, to the Dodger games, and I'd see them together there
sometimes.>
Doria

Yeah, I'm not buying into that. IF it had been Grant and Young doing all their own skating the director would have made it very clear and not had so many long shots of the skating. It seems quite obvious it was a skater wearing a Grant-like mask doing Grant's more difficult skating.

[Alyssa Franco]

Post by Doria

Post by Trudi Marrapodi
So...anyone know who the skating doubles were for this movie? Or have a
clue as to who they might have been? Lord knows the credits for this movie
were long (they even mention who the choir was), but the skaters never got
credit.

-----------------------
No doubles for Cary Grant. I had the opportunity to ask him this
because we shared the same chiropractor years ago and were in the same
waiting room on a couple of occasions, talking about the Dodgers (he
was a big, big Dodger fan and had season tickets) and he told me he
was a gymnast when he was young, and did all his own skating in most
every scene in the Bishop's Wife (one of my favorits Grant movies).
He could also dance really well and roller skate. He also could do
prat falls because of his gymnastics background, like he did in
"Bringing in Baby" by K. Hepburn. He was a very nice old man when I
met him and I got his autograph too on one occasion. I don't know if
Loretta Young had a skate double or not in that movie. Occasionally
Grant and his wife Barbara would take Dr. Hexburg, the chiropractor we
shared, to the Dodger games, and I'd see them together there
sometimes.
Doria

This is easily found on Goolge and Wikipedia:

Turner partnered with Sonja Henie during her tour and in Iceland in 1942. He also performed as a skating double for Cary Grant in The Bishop's Wife in 1948, and for Patric Knowles in the Abbott & Costello comedy, Hit the Ice in 1943.